Pie Crust

topic posted Sun, November 1, 2009 - 9:27 AM by  ALLAH God of...
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Pie Crust:

How to make Super flaky light pie crust that pie crust you can only dream about.

How to make it EVERY SINGLE TIME - - without fail - ever.

Do a google search and you will find even venerable persons such as Alton Brown advocating the use of butter.
It seems that all the nut jobs out there on the internet-S have copied each other and not a fooking one knows what they are talking about.

☠ ☣ ☢ ☠ ☣ ☢ BUTTER CONTAINS WATER~!!!!! ☠ ☣ ☢ ☠ ☣ ☢
Butter is Soooooo wrong


✔ ✔ ✔ Well reduced Lard or Crisco do not contain water. ✔ ✔ ✔



One cup crisco, three cups all purpose flour, table spoon salt, Some ICE COLD water.

✖ ✖✖ ✖ No butter~!! None~!! Not ever~!! None~!! Butter is the reason a pie crust sucks.✖ ✖✖ ✖✖

I know the great chef Brown says to freeze the butter a bit to immobilize the water: BULLSHIT~!!!
Alton Brown is full of shit~!!!

Do not - EVER - use butter in a pie crust. It is the poison of pie crusts it is the reason so many pies suck.

OK, I'm done ranting, now here is the thing:


Cut Crisco or Lard into the flour ever so delicately using two table knives work the knives together as if you were actually cutting something up.

Or a pastry knife. That's one of those things that unless you know what it is you will never guess it's purpose. It's got a handle and from each end of the handle run looped wires that form a sort of bail all in one place. You jam that into the pastry over and over to cut the lard or crisco into the flour. Sometimes you can find them in yard sales. You don't need it. Two table knives are perfect for the job.

DO NOT try to get a homogeneous mix. Is is supposed to be lumpy with un-mixed crisco globs the size or green peas or bigger and have an unfinished look to it. It's supposed to fall apart as you work it into a crust shape. These are ATTRIBUTES~!!! They are the reason the crust comes out all flaky and delicate.

When making a flaky pie crust you do need to add water (and salt). The issue is WHEN that water is to be introduced .

After a few minutes of slicing the crisco or lard into the flour you find you pretty much done the lumpy bits seem about the sized of green peas and some maybe larger .
This is the time to introduce ICE COLD water. I mean really cold. Water you poured into crushed ice is about right

You add it in little bits as you use the knives to get it through the dough.
RESIST THE URGE TO TOUCH THE DOUGH WITH YOUR HANDS~!!!!!!!!
Don't do it. Don't even think about it. Don't do it. The mere touch will destroy your crust

Add the water a little at a time and slice it in with the knives. Don't get all smarty pants and turn the blades sideways. DO NOT try to make the dough homogeneous. Those Lumps are your Friends. Preserve them by being ever so delicate.

Then when you think you are done the dough is sort of dry not moist set the dough aside for a few minutes to hydrate.
Use that time to break out some more flour and a rolling pin and clear your work area.

When rolling out the dough don't try to get it perfect - - or free of holes - - you only want to roll the dough just enough to get it the size and thickness for the pie crust. Use lots of flour to prevent sticking and don't worry about holes and cracks in the dough. The goal is to minimize any working of the dough. It's critical that you not work the dough because you have water in it and the water is going to react with the gluten and cause the dough to become something that is not-flaky.

You can fix cracks and holes and defects in the crust AFTER you have placed the dough in the pie plate on top of the Chicken pot pie or where ever it's final destination is to be.
Use the scraps to fix holes etc. Just lay them on and press ever so slightly - and I mean slightly.


That is how to manage the dough for a super flaky light delicious enviable crust
Try it. I will work for you every single time.
I promise.

And children butter burns your crust.
Don't believe me?
OK, place a pat of butter on top of the crust when you are done.
or
Make it in a happy face or spell out a name with the butter bits.

You'll see. The places where the butter was placed will be darker.



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  • Re: Pie Crust

    Sun, November 1, 2009 - 3:49 PM
    Freezer section. Please make me a quiche now. Thank you. : )
    • Re: Pie Crust

      Sun, November 1, 2009 - 6:09 PM
      What sort of quiche. The typical oily cheezy type or my preference one with broccoli, criminie mushrooms, celery, ricotta (or cottage cheese) , eggs and no oily cheese.

      Crusts from the freezer section really are abominations.
      A good flaky light crust is so easy to make if you just do what I outlined.
      The machine made ones are overly worked, overly dense, and - well - crappy.
      It's a problem with the vast majority of food stuffs that must be processed and handled in huge quantities to get it to retail. They end up being formulated for the machinery. It has happened to most of out produce too. The breeders have manipulated the produce so that it can be harvested by machines and transported and survive the ordeals.
      The result is fruit with less taste. when ever you mess with something to try to get some particular quality expressed more than before you end up trading off in other areas.

      This is even true with metals. You want super edge holding you end up losing other characteristics like abrasion resistance or impact toughness or cherry hed hardness resistance. You want rust resistant steel ( SST) you lose the ability to hold or take a good edge.

      In fact the only stainless I've ever seen or heard of that works and sharpens and holds an edge like old school high carbon steel is no longer made. There was a Japanese foundry that was using a high vacuum smelter and double smelting the SST. High end custom knife makers were wild for the metal. You could hand forge it~!! These are knife makers whose pocket knives sell for $5-Grand and up.

      Well any ways stay the hell away from the freezer section or I'll end up being called in to perform a karmic exorcism on you and bring your soul back to the light .

      ~ ~ ~ ~ ~Come to the light~ ~ ~ ~





      • Re: Pie Crust

        Sun, November 1, 2009 - 6:45 PM
        You go head on with your Betty Crocker EZ Bake Oven yo. : )

        I like all kinds of quiche. Beggars can't be choosers. Sounds like you make a good one. My friend Dave makes incredible ones. Everything he cooks is incredible. He makes everything look so easy too. He's a trained chef though. I like bacon, mushrooms, cheese, red and green bell peppers, onion.
        • Re: Pie Crust

          Mon, November 2, 2009 - 7:16 PM
          ***************You go head on with your Betty Crocker EZ Bake Oven yo. : )*******

          I'm working my way up to a 60 Watt light bulb.


          • Re: Pie Crust

            Tue, November 3, 2009 - 12:16 AM
            I'm working my way up to several 600 watt bulbs.

            And frozen may not be as good as homemade. But it can still be great and the covenience for the price is worth it to me. I dont have time for shit. If frozen tastes good? Guess what I'm using? Time is flying by yo.
            • Re: Pie Crust

              Thu, November 12, 2009 - 5:25 AM
              ************If frozen tastes good? Guess what I'm using? Time is flying by yo. **************

              I guess it's all about how you elect to order the priorities.

              I figured out a way to make a very comfortable income with minimal effort.
              So I can juggle my priorities.

              As an interesting aside:
              If you are eating out of the Freezer section out of necessity due to time compression in your lifestyle: what are you doing on the internet in social networking sites, and in a recipe forum? Mind you, I ain't challenging your presence it's just that those two things seem to be in stark conflict with the time issue as you described it.
  • Re: Pie Crust

    Mon, November 2, 2009 - 7:23 PM
    I really like marinated artichoke hearts in my quiche, with only a little cheese. Mmmmm....

    Butter cannot be the death of pie crust, because I ALWAYS use butter, and my pie crust is fantastic. Same as my father, and grandmother before me. They are light, tender, crisp, flaky, and as near perfection a piecrust can come. My father in particular makes pie crust that touches on something divine. I think people just overmix it. You need nice fat flake of butter, not some meally crumbly non-sense.
    • Re: Pie Crust

      Mon, November 2, 2009 - 9:12 PM
      Ive been hearing some good things about lard in pie crust and i tried Tenderflakes *gasp* refridgerated puff pastry and my pocket pies turned out good...Does a lard/butter and shortening combo make a flavourful flakey crust?
      • Re: Pie Crust

        Tue, November 3, 2009 - 6:32 AM
        Commercial puff pastry is one of the few success stories of food mechanization. Bread is another - so long as one is willing to tolerate the absence of character and taste.

        Making puff pastry yourself is pretty tedious too.
        But, if done right and with the requisite effort the result is fabulous.

        In puff pastry the gluten is worked up and in fact must be. The thinness of the layers requires the gluten to hold them together. Puff pasty is entirely unlike a pie crust.
    • Re: Pie Crust

      Tue, November 3, 2009 - 6:28 AM
      ************because I ALWAYS use butter,**********

      Try it without. Try what I posted.
      What's the worst that can happen?
  • Re: Pie Crust

    Wed, November 4, 2009 - 5:20 PM
    See, this is why I buy frozen pie shells (and make everything else from scratch)...
    • Re: Pie Crust

      Thu, November 5, 2009 - 6:06 AM
      Try making your own.
      I promise you, if you follow those simple instructions you won't ever be accosted in the frozen pie crust section of the supermarket by that violent band of moldy mushrooms again.

      They'll have to stalk you and attack somewhere else.
      • Re: Pie Crust

        Thu, November 5, 2009 - 7:36 AM
        butter is my favorite cheese

        ?!
        • Re: Pie Crust

          Thu, November 5, 2009 - 1:05 PM
          that's very funny.

          When you make a crust with Crisco you can paint butter on with a light brush making whatever drawing you please. The buttered part will darken a lot more than the rest.

          I don't know about lard as I don't eat it.

          I suppose if you were of a mind you could make a face of Jesus and sell it on Flea-bay
          Or one of Che Guevera and claim it's his ghost or something.
          Or Hendrix
          Or Paul McCartney. It'd be a real deal if you could sell that in the Flea bay.
  • Re: Pie Crust

    Sat, November 7, 2009 - 7:32 AM
    i need to test bake a T-Day pie so i might to try this. i have used butter in the past and always had mixed results - sometimes flaky and sometimes very tough. i still thin it's my technique though and not necessesarily the butter. i do love the tast of butter too.

    i just read that European butters work better in pie crusts as they have a higher fat content and less water. i'd like to try that too.
    • Re: Pie Crust

      Sat, November 7, 2009 - 11:39 AM
      Maybe they might with the greater fat content.

      One of the main issues most people have with pie crust is they just can't resist that urge to get it smooth and homogeneous.
      If you do that to the dough you'll have ruined it. The secret magical trick is to not work the dough just slice the Crisco or lard in.

      It took me a long time to figure that very simple concept out, even with my wife and mother in law gently nudging me and trying to show me.
      I just HAD to make it smooth. And every time I added the toughness that comes from gluten
      Don't stir, don't touch, just slice, and as god is my witness, don't get too concerned trying to work the water in - leave it chunky and lumpy.

      • Re: Pie Crust

        Sun, November 8, 2009 - 8:51 AM
        Ya know...my Great Grandmother used lard, and my Grandmother used lard or Crisco, and they had the BEST pie crusts ever! So, I believe you when you say not to use butter. I have never made a pie crust myself (other than a graham cracker crust where butter IS your friend), but I think I will refer back to your post should I ever get the nerve up to give it a try. I'm not much of a pie person...but I do fondly remember my Grandma & Great Grandma's yummy pies.

        Can you use butter flavored Crisco??
        • Re: Pie Crust

          Mon, November 9, 2009 - 6:36 AM
          **********Can you use butter flavored Crisco?? ****************

          They have such a thing?
          How's it taste?

          I should think that the chemicals they use to simulate the flavors of butter and fool the tongue would not involve water. Water being the reason why I say that butter is problematic. There's lots of water in butter.

          However I bet you a nickel that Crisco people will be more than happy to tell you whether their flavoring compounds involve adding water to the product.
          Look: they even have a phone number you can call
          www.crisco.com/About_Cris...x#faq_trans
        • Re: Pie Crust

          Mon, November 9, 2009 - 9:57 AM
          i've heard lard makes great crusts also, but the stuff you buy at the grocery isn't the same as what grandma used. It has lots of additives and such. i think the term for the old-style lard is 'leaf lard' Not sure what that means but i think it's purer and of course harder to find.
      • Re: Pie Crust

        Mon, November 9, 2009 - 9:55 AM
        yeah, many articles on making great pie crusts talk about learning the "feel" i guess that comes with time and many successful pies. i don't go for complete incoporationa nd tend to leave mine fairly crumbly, but obviously am still working on my technique. thanks for the tips =)
        • Re: Pie Crust

          Wed, November 11, 2009 - 7:03 AM
          The feel huh? Well it's mostly visual since the baker who handles the dough enough to get a good "feel" may very well have ruined it by such handling..

          I never use any broad instrument on the dough until I am pushing it out onto the rolling surface ( in my case a granite counter). I never touch the dough with my fingers or hands until I am pressing it together ( and only that one time) to form a loose mound of dough to begin the brief ( very very brief) work of rolling the dough out. .

          I lean on the pin hard so I get maximum spread with as little working the dough as possible.

          Then I use the pin rolling the dough up onto the pin to transfer it to the pie plate or where ever it's going to be placed.

          Often, if I failed to apply sufficient flour to the granite before rolling, I'll need to run a long thin knife ( a 12" fillet knife is good) under the dough, between the dough and the granite ,to break it free of the granite.

          • Re: Pie Crust

            Wed, November 11, 2009 - 9:56 AM
            so you don't push it together into a disc, wrap and let rest for a few hours before rolling?
            • Re: Pie Crust

              Wed, November 11, 2009 - 11:58 AM
              I never have. I have rested it a while to let the itty bitty amount of ice cold water hydrate into the flour. But the rest was like maybe 20 minutes.

              I'd guess that's what the "rest for a few hours" is all about. Letting the flour take up the moisture.
              After all if you are not actively homogenizing the dough ( and you should not be) you might want to let the natural tendency of water to become evenly distributed such that it is at steady state across all the flour. But I've never felt the need.
  • Re: Pie Crust

    Wed, November 11, 2009 - 3:25 PM
    homemade is great but my rolling pin broke and I hardly ever use it any way now so Pillsbury ready made does it for me. Blaaaa, to the frozen pie shells though.
  • Re: Pie Crust

    Wed, November 18, 2009 - 11:00 AM
    YUMMY YUMMY
    This is the same secret my Mémé taught me.
    I have a tiny eensy little variation that works for me

    Crushed ice instead of water.
    I take the ice from my ice maker using the crushed setting then put it into a poly bag onto a board and I smack it it with a flat meat mallet tiull the ice is well and truly pulverized. I could just put it in the food processor or blender I guess.

    You need to do one thing first:
    You need to do a cup of crushed ice your way, then pack it into a measuring cup and nuke it in the microwave.
    This gives you your calibration: How much crushed ice = how much water.
    Crush it that way every time.

    Then mix the proper amount of crushed ice into your pie crust dough.
    Cut it in with knives thoroughly then, set the bowl aside while the ice melts and the flour takes the water up.

    My Mémé also used two table knives one in each hand. And like Allah here (did your mother name you Allah? scandalous) never ever touch the dough with your hands.

    I remember her in her kitchen teaching me the secret to a good pie crust. She had this HUGE Sunbeam stand mixer that was the center of her kitchen. My Pépé bought it for her one Christmas when I was just little. It came with a sausage making attachment she really used. I wanted to see her use that magical machine but "non, non, non" she chided gently “La tendresse, la chaleur de l'amour est le secret, la machine n'ont pas de cœur.” Or in English: Machines have not got the tenderness of the heart, the love that makes it right. I have it now both that tenderness and the mixer. It is a cherished antique that I keep for display. Sometimes when I put my hands on it I can almost hear her voice.
  • Re: Pie Crust

    Thu, November 19, 2009 - 12:23 PM
    Alton Brown has a great recipe for pie crust that uses butter - but he stresses keeping thing very cold and not over handling. My computer recently had to be redone and I've not reloaded my files on so I don't have the recipe on hand, but I'm sure he uses something besides just butter. His crusts come out flakey and tender - except for me - I suck at making pie crust no matter what I try. I'm not so great at baking as I am at cooking, so I have elected to not do pies. Frozen ones have too many nasty ingredients in them, usually.
    • Re: Pie Crust

      Thu, November 19, 2009 - 4:18 PM
      Allah says Alton Brown has his head up his back side.
      He even puts it in the food processor like a twit who went to some ungodly culinary school where they trained the chefs for Campbell's Soups to cut everything in identical size and shapes.

      Allah the God of all says BUTTER IS EVIL
      For I am the Great and Powerful ALLAH~!!!


      *******His crusts come out flakey and tender *************

      You never had one did you?
      I tried once to reach inside the telly and snag me some munchies and it didn't work.
      All I did was smear brie all over the screen
      That stuff is hard to clean off a TV screen~!~!@#$%#@#
      What~!!??? You got a better TV service than me that you can reach in and taste the stuff they make?
      HA~!! Bet you pay through the nose for that.~!!

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